“LAW & DETERMINATION” | SE. 3 EP. 4 FT. MICHAEL HOTZ

Welcome back to another episode of Mayor Morrell Speaks! In this installment, Mayor Ronald Morrell, Jr. sits down with attorney and entrepreneur Michael Hotz.

Michael wears many hats in the Marion community—serving as an attorney for the City of Marion while also leading his own practices, Hotz Law Firm and GCA Title. This conversation is packed with "gems" for anyone looking for the inspiration and practical advice needed to chase their professional goals and personal dreams.

Inside the Episode

• Local Leadership: Michael’s dual role in public service and private practice.
• Entrepreneurial Spirit: The journey of building Hotz Law Firm and GCA Title from the ground up.
• Marion Pride: Why Michael chooses to invest his talents in Marion, Indiana.
• Words of Wisdom: Key takeaways on resilience, ambition, and community impact.

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The "MAYOR MORRELL SPEAKS" podcast is produced by Frequency Canvas, LLC. All Audio Production (Recording, Editing, Mixing, & Mastering) is done by: Kyren Monteiro of Frequency Canvas, LLC.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to season number three, episode four of the Memoral Speaks Podcast. I'm honored again today to have a very special guest. I've had the chance to get to know him over the last past uh five years, and this guy's tremendous. Um, he's a great asset to the city of Mary, and I'm so excited for you guys to get to learn more about this amazing man sitting here, uh Michael Hotz. Yeah, get it up for I start all of my shows with the simple question who is who is Michael Hotts?

SPEAKER_01 0:35

Well, I appreciate the the introduction and and uh good to be on the show today. So um, you know, you know, I don't know. It depends. My my wife says I'm a Gemini, so uh you have a couple different sides to you. Uh uh sometimes you uh you you are who you need to be in the moment, right? But uh so yeah, I mean um uh we're just joking before you came on. Uh I didn't get any uh any deals that come to Marion, but uh I'm glad I ended up here. Uh so but yeah, I was um originally from Fort Wayne, my wife and I. And uh so uh went to Wabash College in Crawfordsville, Indiana, and uh sort of got out of there and was in uh Charles Schwab for about two years uh there. And uh it was a good experience, but I I I hated it. I realized I wasn't much of a numbers guy, and so that wasn't you know my forte. So uh decided to go to law school, went to IU law, and then you know, um kind of a broke uh law student driving around looking for a job. It wasn't a great economy at the time, and I'm like, hey, where are you gonna end up at? And uh, you know, honestly, I just went on the IU website and saw there's an opportunity uh at Spitzer Herem, which is a great firm right down the street here. And and uh I just talked to my uh uh wife fiance at the time and said, Hey, could you you know get a job uh there in Marion? And she used uh pharmacist working for CBS and sort of applied, and next thing you know, and you know, Marion, Indiana, right?

SPEAKER_00 2:01

How long has it been there?

SPEAKER_01 2:03

Uh it's been uh yeah, it's about 12 years uh now. So it's uh it's been a it's been a wild ride. You know, you you kind of go back in your in your life and you go, like, hey, 12 years ago, what were you doing? And what are you doing now? And and feel a lot of gratitude for, you know, it's like you know, uh 12 years later and three kids, right?

SPEAKER_00 2:20

Like so we got wow, we got a whole bunch of ways we can go with this. So let's let's go here first. So what advice would you give someone wanting to be an attorney in a small town, right? Familiar is by all accounts technically small, or 28,000 people. Um so what advice would you give to someone looking to become an attorney and if and be located in a small town? So not so not big law, that's why I'm comparing it to. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:43

Yeah, yeah. I mean, everybody does uh different paths, you know, and I I get that question from some people sometimes, uh, and you know, it's it's not what you expect. Like my advice about it is is you know, if if you're somebody that's that's thinking about it, I would I would do something for undergrad. You have to have an undergrad uh degree to to go to law school, uh law school's three-year program. But my advice is do something you're interested in. You know, so when I when I was uh going to law school, went to I. McKinney in Indianapolis, uh I took day classes, night classes, a clerk during the day uh for a great attorney. And um, you know, uh a lot of the guys were and women were, you know, they went to Eli Lilly, they were engineers, they were looking to do some uh a change the pace. Uh you had the traditional route that people would go right into it, but sometimes it were second careers. And um I always thought like do what you like, don't do pre-law. I think that's kind of a waste of time. Like if you're interested in healthcare and want to do nursing or or something like that, as long as you can think critically and and and write, um, you know, law school can be something you can kind of transition into and you can bring those. So some of these guys that came out of Le Lai Lilly, they ended up doing healthcare law. Yeah, you know, um, so yeah, different. Um if you if you were in a nursing, some of those guys do medical device law, engineers sometimes do patent law, they're great at intellectual property. So um, yeah, it translates into a lot of different fields. So I'd say that get something at your core that you could see yourself doing, and then uh and then use the law school as a sort of an enhancement thing.

SPEAKER_00 4:13

Yeah. So um hit on a second the difference between like when people think like big law, like that kind of law and that kind of practice versus what you would see something like here. Yeah, I reason I like to ask this is because in my role as mayor, right, we we we use big law for some things and we don't use big law for some things. So and I think people struggle to know the difference or why, you know, um you use big law versus other small town attorney. So talk about some of the differences between that.

SPEAKER_01 4:44

Yeah, it's uh I I think it's pretty uh probably similar to like if you think of your um your like your neighborhood doctor, right? You know, you have your kind of general practitioner, um, and they've got to be a little bit of a jack of all trades, or like a and um talk to got a uh buddy that's an ER doctor, right? And you know, you never know what's gonna come in your door that that morning at a triage situations and you have to know a little bit about everything, and you need to know what you don't know, right? And so um, yeah, when you're in a smaller town, you're gonna get a lot of different looks. Like if you're um a smaller town attorney, you've got to be able to go into a courtroom and and do a jury trial, you know, and and you know, litigate, they would call that, right? Conversely, I have clients that I'm doing business track transactions with, estates, uh state planning, state litigation. So you got to know a little bit about everything and be prepared for that. Um I and so conversely, if you're at sort of sort of like maybe like a bigger firm, like you're a 300 or 400 or 500 firm place, you're probably gonna get a little bit more siloed, right? And so if you're a person like I had a really good buddy that um he went to DePaul, I went to Wallbash College. We always joked about that. He was a super bright guy, top of his class in law school, and um he uh was a big basketball play and he said, Michael, I just want to go and do just like the same thing every day. And so he went to a big firm and he just did bond work, yeah, and that's all he does, right? And for me, that would be killer, right? I would just like you know, I'm gonna my head will explode if that's all I have to do every day. And so for some people that's great. So yeah, there is a little bit of a difference, and if you're in a big firm, you're gonna be siloed and you're gonna be very specialized in one thing, but you might not have to do other things like that. I had another buddy said, Hey, you know, um, he does healthcare law. And uh they said, Well, you know, the firm they they they let me you know get with an estate attorney to help draft a will for my family. And I'm like, man, I'm I'm drafting wills and litigating estates already, you know. And and so um, yeah, a little bit of a different, different take there. Um I I think that to me it always fit my personality because I was a liberal arts education of kind of doing different things and liking to like you know trying to figure things out. Um, so um, yeah, that's a difference pace there too. Um small town, too, you got a little more freedom over your over your day, you're a little bit more entrepreneurial, you know. Um I think if you're a big firm, sometimes you got you've got a lot of hierarchy.

SPEAKER_00 7:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:05

Yeah, well, hey, this is just the way we do things. So that's gonna that's gonna hurt you sometimes. So what you find sometimes is people go to a bigger firm and they learn a lot and then they say, well, you know, I'm gonna kind of get out and do my own thing, or or they stay and be kind of a lifer, right? So different.

SPEAKER_00 7:21

So it's real real corporate. Yeah, yeah. So um, so also, so one more thing about law. So you are obviously the city attorney now for going on two and a half years. Um what would you say is the biggest difference between being a city attorney versus being a because again, I have a I have a very uh broad uh listener cycle, right? So when they think attorney, they think all they think every every attorney is just in court defending criminals, right? So they they're not processing all of the uh different aspects of what attorneys can do. So what would you say is the biggest difference between uh like a day-to-day life as a city attorney versus like a private practice, uh criminal defense attorney versus a prosecuting attorney, like this kind of highlight some of the different avenues for people watching who might want to be an attorney and that they may not know all the different things they could possibly do, specifically starting with the city attorney thing.

SPEAKER_01 8:12

Yeah, the the city attorney is definitely a different different pace than like you would you'd say private practice. So if you're a private practice, so you got private practice attorneys that are you know civil, which is you know represent people in real estate transactions, uh maybe divorces, estate uh work. And then you have sort of the criminal aspect where they're defending people who are charged with crimes. Um and then you know you have this the the the prosecutor, which is more pro, you know, that's kind of white night. You're going after criminals and you're trying to you know to throw them in jail and prison. And so private practice is is is is a is a lot different, I think, than because you're just it's really just one-on-one, multiple different kind uh clients that you always have, where the the city attorney is you really have one big client, and there's 237 employees there, right? And so you know getting them all worked together and yeah, and uh is is is a challenge sometimes. But uh you have one primary client that you're you know responsible for. And um, you know, in my role, I I feel like it's a lot more managerial than it is. I mean, there's there's a lot huge law aspect to it, but uh I I finally spend a lot of time like having means with like different departments to try to accomplish something, and so yeah, yeah, you're really kind of putting a managerial hat on sometimes more than like the legal side of things uh to try to because you know it's like we've had problems sometimes with like cleaning up areas, right? And it's like, okay, I know the law is like this is an ordinance violations, it's a nuisance, um, you know, at trash or debris, but then it's like, well, you gotta get your code enforcement department, how they're interpreting it, and then the police department, and you kind of get them because they have a say-so about how to solve the problem, then you got the street department, and so you're like you're having these meetings that are more just like getting everybody on the same page to accomplish a goal. So it's uh it's uh um it's a different pace.

SPEAKER_00 10:00

Yeah, it's and it's it's so interesting, right? Because obviously, you know, we're pretty intimately involved in a lot of stuff with the city, you know, and it's so interesting to see I all of the different hats you end up having to wear as a city attorney, right? Because when you do defense one day, and then we're going after somebody on for an order violation the next day, and then we get a slew of requests for something the next day after that, and then it's like uh, you know, then you contract lawyer on that on top of that too. And then so it's like what I've been able to see, you know, um what the city attorney does, what you do is I mean, it's incredible, man, because you don't know, like every day, man, you don't know what you're dealing with uh you have HR stuff one day, and it turns into this whole big like it's insane how much can go from a city attorney. Now I think it's cool for people to know that, right? Because like as, you know, oh man, then we got you know, like deals we're doing, or so then it turns into this, I mean, yeah, it's it's a lot, man, of of how much a city attorney does, man. So again, I appreciate you you did a great job at that. So uh let's um let's shift ha shift hats a little bit. Something you said earlier on that I want to go back to is you know, you're so you are from the Fort Wayne area and you've been here for 12 years, and one of the things that I'm really passionate about and trying to solve for this equation is how do we attract and retain professionals in the city of Marion, right? So somebody like you, law degree, and you know, you say your wife is a pharmacist, you really can you can probably be anywhere, right? So what we talked about how you got here, and what keeps you in in Marion?

SPEAKER_01 11:31

Yeah, that's a great uh great question. Um, you know, and it's I think it's definitely a challenge that you know your administration and part of that too is has you know struggled with and tried to you know address. And and uh it's funny how you you your your life cycles, right? You go through these cycles, like you know, 12 years ago when I came here, I probably would have given a different answer than 12 years later that I have you know three kids, seven, five, and three, and a wife. And and um I'd I start with the upside of it is is like when you can live, work, and play in the same area, I mean that's the greatest thing ever. Like you go to different communities and they're in Indianapolis or or Fort Wayne, it's like, well, I live on this side of town, but I work over here, and like I go this way, but we kind of have like the great thing where it's like you're right here within I call it the one song trip, the one song away from home, you know, or my kids, you know. Yeah, yeah. No, some people are commuting 45, you know, 50 minutes, and so um I think that's the real advantage. There's opportunity to make a living. So you know, it checks the boxes there. I think that now I'm I've just turned 40, I'm gonna be turned actually, I'm gonna turn 41 here pretty soon. But um, you know, I'm thinking more about, you know, it's like you know, the education of kids is uh is an important thing. So that's a that's a you know, as you're you know as my kids go through or like making sure they're getting their proper education, getting the right, uh, I'm doing right by them, and uh and and and making sure we have good opportunities, right? And and you know, um sometimes you know you see you know families kind of leave and don't go to our school systems, or and then you're like, oh man, like you know, if those families kind of stay, that's how we kind of make these things better. But yeah, you know, will they get drawn out by other things like youth athletics? And so I think that's something that you know uh I'm really you know I'm kind of secretly a big fan of, and I probably told you at least just you know, like Ballard Field, the can develop that and that youth sports thing because that's really a big draw to keep that education here and keep families proud of their school system and because they're competitive and they're winning state championships, and and so developing those youth sports and and having that from a young age and bringing that back. Yeah, there's a lot of great things um that are going on right now with that. Uh like Aaron Murray and uh and you know, he kind of brought back some youth basketball the last couple years. That's fabulous, right? Like you're building that group that might be the next Marion Giants, right? Uh CIFC Soccer is doing the same thing, and we're looking at redoing Ballard Field. Yeah, like those are the type of things that like from my view, even my kids, like that's what I want. You know, uh I love working here. I want to make sure those things are great so my kids have those same opportunities that I might have had in Fort Wayne.

SPEAKER_00 14:02

Yeah, 100%, man. So the um we uh what I found out is we really struggle with 30 to 45, right? 30 to let's say say 30 to 50, keeping high earning, hustling the professors in the city of Marion. And then what I found out is, you know, being with myself and talking to others is that it's those things, live, working, and plan, the quality of life and the amenities that that you know that we want to have access to, Marion traditionally hasn't had. So now, as an amendment from an administrative and mayor standpoint, I'm trying to do everything we can to bring those things back. So that's why it explains the you know, the the ballot field investment and the skate park investment and the all the stuff we're doing downtown.

SPEAKER_01 14:44

Well, even the housing too. I mean, that's the one I forgot too, is like when I came to town 12 years ago, like well, we want you to live in in and marry in our county, and that was great. I was like, okay, that wound up working out for me. But I mean, I was just coming out of law school debt, undergrad debt, my wife had debt, uh-huh and like go buy a house. Yeah, yeah. Because there was no uh market rate housing. Right. And I was going around trying to find it and I couldn't. So I think that's what a lot of that is like if you you got to get people here first and make it easy for them, and yeah, and those housing things are are are really important for them.

SPEAKER_00 15:16

That's one of my big things of focusing on, man. So it's it's good to hear, you know, your perspective on that somebody is not from here and move here, and what got you here and what keeps you here. So we want to do that to keep investing, the attract, you know, and retain young professionals in um the city of Mary. So switch hats again. So now you do so many things, man. Um, you also are a business owner. Um, so talk to talk to me about that, right? So, what what got you into what your entrepreneur the entrepreneurial entrepreneurial uh uh journey?

SPEAKER_01 15:48

Sure, sure. Um, so you know, I think my part of it is like you get a little more confidence, like you're representing clients, buying and selling companies, and and so you're doing all the kind of the paperwork behind it, right? And then um, I mean, sometimes it's easier to be the one advising versus the one taking the risk, right? And so um I actually remember this, like there was a couple group of guys uh down downtown that wanted to to buy one of the buildings on the north side, and and the time I said, You guys are crazy, you know. So they they wound up actually being like ahead of the game. And uh so I helped them do the legal work and and um and done the legal work for a lot of different um owners around the square, right? In the last you know, 10 years, 12 years. And um and so I said, Nah, I'm not interested in that, but I tell you what I would do is like I think that title company over there and across country, like I kind of understand that that transaction, it's a real estate process, and so uh have a business partner and said, Hey man, I you know, I'll I'll I'll introduce and you know, and so we got connected, and then you know, you just you pull the trigger, right? And so, and then so but it's uh you know a GCA title, or it's it's been there about eight last 80 years, or Grant County Abstract, and so that's a whole nother world, uh, because like when you practice law, um you're you're you're a lot more just in control of your own destiny, you're you're doing the work, right? And so um it's seven years later, and now you've got to learn how to manage people, yeah. And so I think that's been a compliment of of coming like getting some of that management skills and taking that into being the city attorney. Yeah, because we're I'm now wearing a little bit more of a management hat sometimes, right? And so um, but that's that's a super cool thing to be like a stakeholder, and and you know, we got some great employees over there and and local opportunities for people here.

SPEAKER_00 17:31

So okay, man. You said something else is gonna make me flip directions again, managing people. Yeah, what advice because somebody told me I'll I'll preface it with this. Somebody told me if you can figure out how to manage people, you this this the world is short, the sky's the limit. So, what's your advice on somebody looking to whether in I mean whether they are the CEO or whether they're working their way up, what's your advice on someone to to help manage people?

SPEAKER_01 17:54

Yeah, I mean there's there's uh uh tons of different, you know, obviously opinions on it. Um so I'll just I'll just speak from my experience of 40 years walking around this earth, right? So I'm no Tony Robbins uh guru in that respect, but um I I think that the essence of you know leadership or management, um one, I mean, it's finding the right people on the bus, right? And I mean that's the key thing, like being a gatekeeper, because if you if you bring the wrong people in your organization, um the it it can be like cancer, you know. Um and then and then figuring out okay, the people on the bus, what what what chair should they be in, right? Like where should they be sitting on the bus is part of that. And then um and then the and the a third thing uh I think that you gotta do uh when you're leading people is like you gotta s help solve their problems. Because at the end of the day, everybody comes to their job and their work and they've they've got something that expected of them, they're trying to accomplish. And so you know the question is can you can you really dig in and help them solve those day-to-day problems? And sometimes it may seem like it's a minor thing, but it's a big thing to them. And the fact that you paid attention to it and heard them and helped solve that is a is a huge thing, right? And so, you know, I've I've noticed just in the city, you know, we we came in with a big problem with um not enough police officers, right? And recruiting that and trying to figure out like you know how to pay them more, how to give them you know better vehicles, you know, they were driving around these old vehicles, right? Um we just uh we got a drone too, just not too long ago, which is super cool. So, like like you're coming in and hearing their voices and literally trying to solve those problems, yeah. And that's I feel like the key thing to leadership because it nobody wants to be told what deal time, but if you can kind of get in with them and feel like you're sharing in it, yeah, it's a whole nother thing.

SPEAKER_00 19:39

Yeah, that's good, man. Cause I was gonna say the same thing, like trying to bring people along on the journey. Because you, I mean, you got you run into different styles of leaders, and some people are heavy-handed, right? And I try to stay away from that, but if you bring people, like make them feel included as part of the decision, like man, it it's it it goes a lot smoother. Oh man, it goes a lot smoother. So um with your with your with your business, man, um do you talk about this entrepreneurship in a small town? What advice do you have for someone who's wanting to start a business or expand their business in a in a town that you know that's smaller? How how do you find success in being a small town entrepreneur?

SPEAKER_01 20:18

Yeah, yeah. So um, you know, the one one thing I've learned, like I I I felt like when you uh when we you know bought the title company, um, you know, you kind of get in there. I I already have a general understanding of it. I have a legal background, it's a real estate transaction. So I'm doing something that's within my wheelhouse, right? That I have some familiarity with and I can kind of master and um had a ton of help along the way. Um the one piece that I was always kind of like, man, I I just I wish I could figure that. I just don't have the confidence was like the financial piece of it. Right. And so I've I've noticed that the years of helping clients that they want to start a business or a restaurant, and it's like they wound up doing a great job, doing whatever the thing is, like producing the product, the food, you know, the title work. But if you don't understand the finances behind there, yeah, you're gonna be working a lot of hours losing money and you'll go out of business, right? And so, like there, you know, a lot of I always say, like, if you're if you're kind of an entrepreneur, like if you can get some experience first, you know, um, you're kind of doing it and working with somebody else and kind of learn the trade, but understand the like math, like the math, the finance behind running a business, that's how it runs. So because nobody wants to put in that long time and effort, and then you're in debt. You know, you're going, you're not making money, the the toast should be like a dollar, it's 10 cents, you don't know this until it's too late.

SPEAKER_00 21:35

So yeah, I mean, I've learned that you know, and talking to uh one of your business partners, Trent taught me this lesson very early on. It's like, you know, you gotta know what your numbers. If you don't know your numbers, you don't you know nothing, right? So you get a lot of entrepreneurs um locally, not just here, but you know everywhere that that think they're making some money, but they're really not making any money. It just is just you know, so it's like being able to understand, you know, what your your business looks like. If you Don't know your numbers, man. It's all falling apart. And so I think that's great advice, man. You gotta you gotta know your number. And so another thing that's challenging, right? Is like usually like small business owners just getting started don't have the funds to hire an accountant, right? So they're just guessing and trying to, yeah, you know, and I've been there myself, but like, no, dude, you got you got you gotta whatever money you think you are having, you gotta invest in an accountant immediately to make sure to make sure it works out, man. So um yeah, so last question, man. So what would you say to um someone looking to move to uh Indiana? Let's make it broad, Indiana and they're looking for a small town. How would you convince them to move to Marion?

SPEAKER_01 22:42

Yeah, I mean, I I you know, we're in the Midwest. I think Indiana's a great state, you know. Uh obviously we've just won a national championship, so that's something to brag about. You know, I that's kind of crazy that you can say that. I think you go in going to that for a while, you know. But um, but uh yeah, I think we have a great, I mean, quality of life here. Things are very affordable, you know, and I and and I think in in today's day and age, like that's meaningful. Like, you know, the you look at housing and and how costly that is and how disproportionate that is to somebody's disposable income in other other states, uh, you know, we we don't tend to have that problem. Uh we're pretty pretty good there. I think we're pretty middle of the road, too. I mean, you just don't see a lot of like rioting and crazy stuff like that. And and and so you take all those kind of um kind of good Midwestern sort of values and you boil that down and and you know that into a town our size of Marion, you know, I think I think Marion is a it's a great cross-section of America, really. You know, you've got people on the very top, but they're socioeconomically, and you have people on the very bottom, people in the middle. Yeah, and like for me, that's that's the thing that I've always kind of been encouraged by is like I when you represent people, you represent people from all uh shapes, colors, backgrounds, uh, and you just got to be able to like stand in a box and represent them. So I want my kids to have that experience too. So it's like, you know, sometimes you know, they're like, oh, we have Marion has these problems or that's like, yeah, every community does too. But you know what? Like, and and maybe we have some problems sometimes in schools, right? But like if your kids can be part of that and help breathe a little life into some of the other kids that have different backgrounds and experience where they're coming from, I think that's gonna make everybody better, right? And so it's so when you live, work, and play in the same area, now I feel like you got some more ownership in it and you feel part of something. Like, you know, I go out in public sometimes. I'm like, I was Mary City Court judge for a while, and it's like I go to Walmart and I'm like, oh man, I saw some people I'm gonna put in jail, you know. And then then other times you're like, oh, you see some people that you know, and it's kind of a cool thing that you feel you know part of. So uh yeah, I mean it definitely checks the boxes for our family, and it may not be for everybody, but um you know, and uh and the things that it doesn't have, it's like well, you're 40 minutes from Fort Wayne, you're you know, maybe 40 an hour away from you know Indianapolis to go get it. And if you're my uh the hot house, Amazon Prime's there every day, anyways.

SPEAKER_00 24:58

Shout out to Kaylee, right? Yeah, yeah, that's right. That's good, man. Well, again, appreciate you for being on the show, man. Um, again, this is uh Memoir Speaks. Thank you guys for listening. Um, you can find us on all major streaming platforms, uh Facebook included, YouTube as well. So look forward to um hearing your feedback in the comments. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_01 25:17

Thank you.